published Friday, February 7th, 2014

CBO Report

about Clay Bennett...

The son of a career army officer, Bennett led a nomadic life, attending ten different schools before graduating in 1980 from the University of North Alabama with degrees in Art and History. After brief stints as a staff artist at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and the Fayetteville (NC) Times, he went on to serve as the editorial cartoonist for the St. Petersburg Times (1981-1994) and The Christian Science Monitor (1997-2007), before joining the staff of the ...

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You gotta be kidding? "job lock" the new bull$hit word tossed around by the liberal media and and democrats.

What's the point of this cartoon, that people are enslaved by their jobs?

Now the CBO is wrong, huh? First BO liked them.

February 7, 2014 at 12:20 a.m.

Bennett got his marching orders.

February 7, 2014 at 12:21 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

The Left's Lamest Defense Of ObamaCare Yet

By Investors.com

ObamaCare backers are working hard to put a happy face on news the Affordable Care Act will cause the labor force to shrink by 2.5 million full-time jobs over the next decade.

To recap: The Congressional Budget Office determined that ObamaCare would discourage work, in large part because many middle-income families will find themselves in what amounts to a 50% marginal income tax bracket as ObamaCare subsidies tail off.

As a result, there'd be 2.5 million fewer "full-time equivalent" jobs and a 1% drop in overall compensation.

As the New York Times explained, it's "a liberating result of the law."

Others were equally laughable.

• "ObamaCare will give more of us more time away from work. This is a good thing."

• It "will enable more than 2 million workers to escape 'job lock.'"

• It "gives workers more choices, including the option to work less."

• Because ObamaCare will make people less willing to work, companies will "have to pay more per hour to get those workers in the door."

• One lawmaker even boasted ObamaCare will give parents more time to "tuck their children in at night."

As to the economic effects, they seem pretty straightforward. And at a congressional hearing on Wednesday, CBO head Douglas Elmendorf underscored this, saying the work disincentive created by ObamaCare "is the central factor in slowing economic growth . . . later in this decade and beyond."

But when reporters asked Obama's top economic adviser, Jason Furman, about this ill effect, he repeatedly dodged the question. Here's a typical exchange:

Reporter: "If 2.5 million people change their choice about working, that is not a net drag on economic growth?"

Furman: Equivalent language provided (Yada, yada, yada, yada ..........)

Reporter: "But you didn't answer my question."

Furman: "I could repeat that if that would help."

We seem to recall a time when the country's leaders celebrated things like drive, determination, hard work and the desire for a better life even if it meant facing long odds and tall challenges.

Now they're cheering for a law because it will encourage, if not force, able-bodied workers to quit their jobs, cut their hours and become still more dependent on the federal government.

February 7, 2014 at 1:27 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

I guess according to today's offering, there "is" a certain basic equivalency between slavery and "job lock".... I bet there are would be someone take issue with that except toonboy is the politically correct flavor... Right?

February 7, 2014 at 1:33 a.m.
blackwater48 said...

IT’S ABOUT WORKERS, NOT JOBS

Contrary to what Fox first reported and the brain-dead media echo chamber repeated for hours, the ACA would NOT kill 2 million jobs. CBO estimates that the ACA will reduce the total number of hours worked, on net, by about 1.5 to 2 percent during the period from 2017 to 2024 because workers will choose to supply less labor.

CBO director Douglas Elmendorf explained to the House budget committee Wednesday that Obamcare actually “spurs employment and would reduce unemployment over the next few years.” Elmendorf said that some workers will eventually be able to choose to not continue working simply because they need the healthcare coverage provided by their employer. And if that worker leaves another will be hired to take his place. Again, this is about labor, not jobs.

The Fox "News" spin-doctors had a similar field day with the Keystone pipeline. Last year House Speaker Boehner claimed the pipeline “will create over 20,000 direct jobs and 100,000 indirect jobs. Not to be outdone, GOP Chairman Reince Priebus claimed Keystone would create 721,000 jobs.

When you actually read the State Department’s Final Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement you learn that construction spending is budgeted to support about 42,000 temporary construction jobs. When the pipeline is complete only 35 full time employees will be hired.

Here’s another GOP lie: The pipeline will help us become energy independent. Unfortunately, the pipeline will transport Canadian oil to Texas refineries to be sold on the world market (China.)

Brad Friedman made this political observation yesterday: “The Republican Party has given up on advocating seriously for whatever policy positions they believe in. They are far past that, and have now simply taken to lying in hopes of scamming Americans into voting for them and buying into their policies. That is not the earmark of a serious policymaking organization....”

February 7, 2014 at 1:50 a.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

But! ... but! ... it is a blessing for those that really don't have the time to hold down a full time job. They can dump that 9 to 5’er that’s got them “job locked” into working their fingers to the bone and stifling their true life’s journey that will lead them to a greater self realization. After all without the ACA there could be a shortage of garage bands like Jason Greenslate’s Ratt Laff. They can do a few gigs a week to qualify for coverage with more than enough downtime to recover. A dude has just got to have some time to find himself ... Right?

Greenslate said - “This is the way I want to live and I don’t really see anything changing, it’s awesome.”

"I do work. I'm just not making any money. I'm setting up a career for myself."

"I don't feel like a bum. I pull hot chicks, drive nice cars, dress nice and wear the most baddest jewelry in the world."

I’m sure that those people that are naturally predisposed to work full time and on a regular basis wouldn’t want to deny the less motivated to find true happiness ... Right?

February 7, 2014 at 2:08 a.m.
TOES02800 said...

Thanks blackwater!! So it's really GOOD news then! People working less hours just to pay for healthcare! Whew!!

And here, I thought it was BAD news.

February 7, 2014 at 3:31 a.m.
EaTn said...

The millions of unemployed desperately needing jobs are elated about those leaving "insurance jobs" for Obamacare; it will open a whole new arena of opportunity. Employers will find those eager to work more productive than those eager to leave their "stuck jobs".

February 7, 2014 at 4:38 a.m.
jesse said...

The Obamaites seem the think if they shovel this horse sh!t long enough they gotta find a pony sooner or later!

February 7, 2014 at 5:58 a.m.
cooljb said...

His cartoons are just fine with me, shows his intelligence, regardless as to how well he can draw. Give it a few years and no one will be able to pay his salary because the TFP will be gone and the enabling of the current liberal policies will be why. Buy the ticket, take the ride. Liberal = no common sense.

February 7, 2014 at 6:09 a.m.
SeaSmokie59er said...

"Job-lock" is Paul Ryan's go to talking point. I didn't know he was so liberal.

– “A lot of people change their jobs. So the tax benefit should change and go with them, and not be attached to their jobs. We want to address job lock. So, the key question that ought to be addressed in any health care reform legislation, is are we going to continue job lock, or are we going to allow individuals more choice, and portability to fit the 21st century workforce?” [Paul Ryan, 5/20/2009]

Looks like it's just what Consevatives wanted, until they got it.

February 7, 2014 at 6:57 a.m.
GaussianInteger said...

Zableed and JT, let me get this straight.

"Job Lock" mentioned by GOP = Good

"Job Lock" mentioned by Dems = Bad

February 7, 2014 at 7:27 a.m.
ibshame said...

"SeaSmokie59er said: Looks like it's just what Conservatives wanted, until they got it."

It's one of the symptoms sufferers of "Obama Deranged Syndrome" have quite often. Anything Obama says or proposes or even copies from them = BAD. Point out the fact this is something right wingers have supported in the past and they stick their fingers in their ears like brats because they have no clue as to how to respond to it. Prime example from an article in the LA Times:

*"A day or so of careful reading and cogitation by the media has begun to turn the tide on what had been the Congressional Budget Office's most widely misunderstood finding about the Affordable Care Act.

It is now recognized that, no, the CBO didn't say that Obamacare would lead to job losses, but instead that it would allow many workers to voluntarily leave their jobs or retire without giving up health coverage.

Even House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) felt the need to get things straight at his hearing Wednesday on the CBO report. "Just to understand," he queried CBO Director Doug Elmendorf, "it's not that employers are laying people off?"

"That's right," Elmendorf replied.

But it's now becoming plain that the CBO finding creates a problem for Republican critics of the healthcare law. That's because relieving millions of Americans of "job-lock," which is what the CBO is talking about, is something the GOP has favored for years. In fact, it was a selling point of healthcare proposals they put on the table prior to 2010, when they decided to abandon the field of healthcare reform. ......

Here are a couple of Heritage Foundation analysts in 2008, praising a healthcare plan proposed by then-GOP presidential nominee John McCain: "Individuals who wish to take a better job, change careers or leave the workforce to raise a family or to retire early take substantial risks. ... This health insurance obstacle to labor mobility is some­times called 'job-lock.'" ....

That's exactly what the CBO projects to be a result of the Affordable Care Act. Relieved of the U.S. healthcare system's merciless link between employment and health insurance, more Americans will leave their jobs. They'll "choose to supply less labor" by working fewer hours or taking early retirement. To put it in the Heritage Foundation's vocabulary, many will "leave the workforce to raise a family or retire early." Until now, that meant losing health insurance. No longer.

The CBO said the reduction in hours worked will be the equivalent of 2.5 million full-time workers over the next decade or so, but that overall employment will still grow and, in fact, the unemployment rate will drop.

The only real option the GOP has for turning what is plainly a virtue for millions of Americans into a curse is to create their own picture of these departing workers...."* http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-job-lock-20140205,0,2101794.story#ixzz2sdefzwn2

February 7, 2014 at 7:40 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

The toon is as silly as its defenders.

February 7, 2014 at 8:37 a.m.
LibDem said...

I think I have this straight now: Conservatives have to lie to make their case so it must be a really strong case.

February 7, 2014 at 8:39 a.m.
Maximus said...

One of Barry The Welfare Pimps goals with Obamascare......create a new Democrat special interest group....jobless pot smoking bohemians with tax payer financed health insurance. Another group of Democrat voters with low expectations where everyday is Saturday as long as they are getting a guvment relief check.

Our private health insurance system before Obamacare where employers provided health plans you could choose to participate in at least provided an incentive for slackers to get a job. The "job lock" argument is bogus. Many would certainly like o have a job! Obama....such a loser! Wow!

February 7, 2014 at 8:54 a.m.

Now the new spin comes down from the top. You see folks now working is the equivalent of being a slave. Now it's liberating to be free of a job, and the insurance they used to be able to offer you. It's much, much better to be unemployed, and be dependent on a jackass like BO.

What a bull$hit president. It's a new world now, like the 1960 movie, the Time Machine. We're the Eloi and the government is the Morlocks. The Eloi are given everything they need by the Morlocks. The Eloi don't work, think for themselves, don't have any real privacy, and just play all the time. They do what the Morlocks want, and in the then end get eaten by the Morlocks.

We're steadily losing our privacy, the government is dictating what we're supposed to do regarding our private health matters, they confiscate more and more of our income, and our ability to defend our- selves, which is our right, is being threatened. We're being told what to eat and drink, and what to drive.

Of course the sacred cows of sodomy, pot, abortion, and the saintly illegal aliens are untouchable.

I read the other day that a father in Hawaii was fighting the schools because of the way anal sex was being promoted by the schools there. The literature stated that an anus is a genital. It's laughable the way libs deny that there's no agenda.

February 7, 2014 at 9:34 a.m.
moon4kat said...

People who can't read (or think) concluded that the CBO said actual jobs disappear when workers quit those jobs. However, that's not what the CBO report said. (doh!) What the CBO really said was that people may leave jobs that they kept mainly so that they could get health insurance. The ACA will free them to take other jobs, ones not chained to health insurance.
We can safely assume that the "job creators" have not been paying 2.5 million people to do work that's unneeded. Those jobs will not disappear; however, workers currently filling those posts may look elsewhere for better pay or other benefits.

February 7, 2014 at 9:41 a.m.
jesse said...

EVERYBODY is gonna spin this to suit their agenda and ya know what?

NOBODY knows what the bottom line is gonna be!

February 7, 2014 at 9:51 a.m.
moon4kat said...

Facts and spin are entirely different things. I hope you are able to tell them apart.

February 7, 2014 at 10:11 a.m.
PlainTruth said...

You're right Moonkat. Obamacare is clearly a hell of a deal.

February 7, 2014 at 10:14 a.m.

Numbers don't lie. Look at what's unfolding. Unbelievable disaster, and for what? Destroy everything.

February 7, 2014 at 10:25 a.m.

CBO good one day for Obama, bad the next. Boo Hoo BO. This cartoon is truly pathetic. To compare being free of a job to a slave becoming free is sad. The well of ideas must be running dry.

February 7, 2014 at 10:35 a.m.
prairie_dog said...

Some day, years from now, when all of this around us is gone, and there's no more welfare and no more employment, all of the people who are making it happen today will be dead and forgotten.

Great legacy.

There is actually a way to stay home, have an income, and enjoy life on your own terms. It's called "retirement," and you can actually EARN the right to do it.

I'm sorry you have to "work" for a living, Clay. I'm sure a lot of other people wish you didn't have to go in and draw this propaganda, too. Why not just quit, give up everything, wait for bankruptcy and public assistance to come to your rescue? Please.

February 7, 2014 at 12:08 p.m.
jesse said...

Moonkat havin a little PMS today!

February 7, 2014 at 12:22 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

I have long argued against the US Govt giving a tax break if you buy healthcare through an employer-based plan and not receiving a tax break if you buy healthcare as a private individual. I don't hear many of you that b!tch about "government entitlements" or "government subsidies" b!tching against that subsidy.

February 7, 2014 at 1:31 p.m.
Maximus said...

Again all of those that buy into Barry The Welfare Pimps siren song of guvment dependence and mediocrity will be less competition for winners like me. As always, on the "for line" of the BIG check I send to the IRS each April I will write......BOMBS AND AMMO......All you liberal losers have a nice weekend! Lol!

February 7, 2014 at 1:34 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

I personally know 3 people who are working at their jobs primarily for the health insurance. And probably every poster on here knows someone in that same predicament. The people I know are not "slackers" who, now that they can get Obamacare, feel free to drop out and stay at home and do nothing. They are all intelligent, motivated people who still need and want to make a decent living - only now they will be free to do something they truly want to do, without having their health insurance tied to their jobs. And if/when they decide to leave their current jobs, those jobs are not going to just disappear. But now someone else who might be better suited for them can take them.

There is no way that this is a bad thing. Whatever other flaws might be inherent in Obamacare, the fact that it gets us away from the archaic notion that our health insurance must be tied to our place of employment is a win-win for everybody. Unless, of course, you are one of those Faux News devotees and other RWNJs who try to spin it otherwise, and consequently look like fools for trying to do so.

February 7, 2014 at 1:53 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

GaussianInteger said...

I have long argued against the US Govt giving a tax break if you buy healthcare through an employer-based plan and not receiving a tax break if you buy healthcare as a private individual. I don't hear many of you that b!tch about "government entitlements" or "government subsidies" b!tching against that subsidy.

Well you have long been wrong.

It looks like you’re not competent enough to do your own taxes and should allow someone else to do that for you.

IRS Publication 502, Medical and Dental Expenses

Medical care expenses include the insurance premiums you paid for policies that cover medical care or for a qualified long-term care insurance policy covering qualified long-term care services. If you are an employee, medical expenses do not include that portion of your premiums treated as paid by your employer under its sponsored group accident or health policy or qualified long-term care insurance policy.

If you are self-employed and have a net profit for the year, you may be able to deduct (as an adjustment to income) the premiums you paid on a health insurance policy covering medical care including a qualified long-term care insurance policy covering medical care for yourself and your spouse and dependents. .... If you do not claim 100% of your self-employed health insurance deduction, you can include the remaining premiums with your other medical expenses as an itemized deduction on Form 1040, Schedule A.

If you don’t itemize then this is taken into account in your standard deductions.

BTW ... very odd that our resident CPA didn't address this the first time you mentioned it several weeks ago.

February 7, 2014 at 2:14 p.m.

Spin it, Rickaroo, spin it until you flop over dizzy. Now it's a good thing to be free from your job, to be unemployed? My gosh, how stupid do you libs think we are that? You think you can toss out a new phrase like "job lock" and it justifies everything? Absolutely sick and deluded.

February 7, 2014 at 2:20 p.m.
inquiringmind said...

zabblee, If you can't figure out the point of the cartoon, think harder. Here is a hint, Slavery=forced labor (by law); need for medical insurance=forced labor(by necessity)

February 7, 2014 at 2:23 p.m.
jesse said...

EATING = forced labor by starvation!!

February 7, 2014 at 2:30 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

NEW DRINKING GAME: Have s shot each time ROO says "RWNJ", or "fools".

February 7, 2014 at 2:33 p.m.
TOES02800 said...

rickaroo still lovin' on Obamacare. Because Obama the great says it's a "good thing".

At the end of the day, the CBO claims that there will still be 31 million people uninsured. Wasn't that the reason for obamacare in the first place? Obamacare has, and will do nothing that it was supposed to do. It was a lie from the beginning. And your head is too far up Obama's ass to see otherwise.

Clearly disillusioned by your false god.

February 7, 2014 at 2:42 p.m.
soakya said...

A profile of your average Obama voter, as defined by an European Psychologist before the 2012 Presidential Election. She nails it:

" Obamamania is beyond politics and reason. It is a true religious cult, whose adherents reject Christianity yet still believe in Original Sin, transferring it from the evil of being human to the evil of being white. Thus Obama has become the white liberals' Christ, offering absolution from the Sin of Being White. There is no reason or logic behind it, no faults or flaws of his can diminish it, no arguments Hillary could make of any kind can be effective against it. The absurdity of Hypocrisy Clothed In Human Flesh being their Savior is all the more cause for liberals to worship him: Credo quia absurdum, I believe it because it is absurd. "

February 7, 2014 at 2:47 p.m.

inquiringmind, that's even more dumb. what's better, being forced by the government? Laughable! You don't like that we get jobs with benefits, one of them being health insurance, and now you label it slavery or forced labor? So, it's better to work your ass off, and have the government get their fingers into your life? Stupid, stupid, stupid. It's not forced labor, idiot, you've decided, after you got your marching orders, to label it as such. Now, we pay more than we ever did, and have to work even harder because the government couldn't leave well enough alone. Morons.

You work to pay electric bills, phone bills, food bills, cc bills, house payments, as well. Are all of those in that same category? Is it forced labor to work for those? You have to pay for health whether you get it through work, or on your own. Someone has to pay for it. This whole notion that governments motives are all so pure is nuts.

February 7, 2014 at 2:51 p.m.

Maybe we should all be pajama boys and sit around and suckle on that ugly, gigantic government teat. Have them take care of our every need while we just entertain ourselves with what they allow us to. You know, things like sodomy and a pot.

Never once in my life did it bother me that I recieved my health through work, not once. I worked because i wanted to, and i didn't work for insurance.

February 7, 2014 at 2:55 p.m.

The cartoon is equating working at a place that offer health insurance as forced labor or slavery because that's where one gets their coverage. "job lock", stupid. How about "food lock", "hydration lock", "electricity lock" well. Is everything that we work for going to be demonized because we work for it.

February 7, 2014 at 2:58 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

SeaSmokie59er said...

"Job-lock" is Paul Ryan's go to talking point. I didn't know he was so liberal.

– “A lot of people change their jobs. So the tax benefit should change and go with them, and not be attached to their jobs. We want to address job lock. So, the key question that ought to be addressed in any health care reform legislation, is are we going to continue job lock, or are we going to allow individuals more choice, and portability to fit the 21st century workforce?” [Paul Ryan, 5/20/2009]

Looks like it's just what Consevatives wanted, until they got it.

First I don’t realistic believe that Paul Ryan speaks for all Conservatives although you seem to think so.

Second You appear to be giving a relative equivalence between Ryan’s “Patient's Choice Act” and Obamacare. I thought you Fleabaggers’ talking point was the Republicans had no health care plan... Right?

Third if you read Ryan’s plan for employee insurance portability you would find that it is quite different than Obamacare.

February 7, 2014 at 2:59 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

PT, yes, I say RWNJ a lot because the name fits. Most of the righties who post on here are complete nuts who lack even a smidgeon of common sense. But at least I just have my say for the day and that's it. If somebody had a shot for every time you post your same ol' lib-hating garbage on here, ALL DAY LONG, they would be sh!t-faced in no time.

February 7, 2014 at 3:18 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

TOES, I do not love Obamacare, I think that it has many flaws. But at least it is an attempt to do something about the problem of the millions of uninsured Americans, and that in itself is a positive thing and much better than can be said about the Republicans and their unconscionable failure to even acknowledge or address the problem.

As for Obama "the great," if you actually bothered to try to comprehend any of my previous posts you would know that I am by no means an Obama worshiper. I think that he is a DINO who is much more centrist than you RWNJs (oops, I said it again. There's a good excuse for you to have another shot, PT!) who laughingly call him a "socialist" give him credit for. He is much too centrist, too hawkish, too corporatist for my liberal blood. I did not vote for him a second time because I think he is a complete sellout as a progressive. He oftentimes talks the talk but does not walk the walk.

As for the 31 million people you are blaming on Obamacare for still being uninsured...that is not the fault of Obamacare but the fault of the Republican governors in the red states who were stupid enough to turn down the billions of dollars of federal money and deny the extremely poverty-stricken people access to Medicaid, which was a provision of Obamacare until the conservative leaning Supreme Court shot it down. In Tennessee, for example, don't blame Obamacare for the hundreds of thousands of people who still can't get insurance. Blame Haslam. It was his decision that is directly responsible for that. Consequently it is not only the uninsured who are hurting but many of the doctors and hospitals who could have used those federal funds to function at an optimum level.

February 7, 2014 at 3:21 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

Roo, so predictable. You never disappoint.

February 7, 2014 at 3:25 p.m.
alprova said...

"BTW ... very odd that our resident CPA didn't address this the first time you mentioned it several weeks ago."

I didn't mention it #1, because taxes are not my specialty, and #2, because very few EMPLOYED people qualify for an added deduction for any medical premiums paid, unless they can pair them with an extensive amount of other medical payments, exceeding the new 10% of adjusted gross income for year 2013.

Businesses get to write of any premiums they pay, like any other expense that they incur, which is the point that GaussianInteger was making.

Health care premimums should be 100% tax-deductible, if encouraging people to obtain health care is the end goal.

February 7, 2014 at 3:29 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

What's really baffling is how you left wing mopes continue to be bamboozled. Slow on the uptake.

February 7, 2014 at 3:29 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

OR, do just refuse to admit you're wrong?

February 7, 2014 at 3:30 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

soakya: 2:47 five stars

February 7, 2014 at 3:32 p.m.
rick1 said...

Pt notice roo used Obamas newest word smidgeon in his post to you at 3:18pm

soadka excellent post at 2:47pm

February 7, 2014 at 3:35 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

rick, Roo has only a smidgeon of open mindedness.

February 7, 2014 at 3:38 p.m.
rick1 said...

Comes right from the regimes talking points.

February 7, 2014 at 3:46 p.m.
SeaSmokie59er said...

Jt6gR3hM said...

"First I don’t realistic believe that Paul Ryan speaks for all Conservatives although you seem to think so."

Only if you agree that Obama doesn't speak for all Liberals.

February 7, 2014 at 3:53 p.m.
Rickaroo said...

Soakya's 2:47 post is a load of crap. Granted, there was a sort of "Obamamania" immediately after he was first elected, but only because it was so encouraging and uplifting to realize that he was our first elected black prez, and he held out such promise of being a true populist who was really going to bring much needed hope and change to the White House and to America. Of course, even that much hope for real change was a pipe dream, given the fact that politics by nature is so corrupting and the POTUS has become a mere figure-head, limited by the powers that be and by the extreme polarization and antipathy that the two parties and ideologies have for each other.

But whatever popularity Obama enjoyed early on by his admirers ("worshipers," if you will) has dissipated and to think that he has a cult following now is ridiculous. His approval rating is the lowest it has ever been and the reason is due strictly to the fact that he has almost entirely lost his progressive base. It has become obvious to us that he is very much the centrist and the corporatist and he either lacks the cajones to stand up to the vested, moneyed interests or he never really intended to in the first place.

So to say that Obama has a cult following of mindless "worshipers" who regard him as some kind of "savior" is utter garbage. But then, garbage is mostly what I see anyway from people like soakya, PT, TOES, con-man, Jt, Maxie, etc.

Now, having said that, I take my leave. I have lingered long enough in the fetid environment of this cesspool of right-wing idiocy. It gets depressing being exposed to the lunacy of you RWNJs (take another shot, PT!) for any longer than a few minutes at a time. Thank god for the lucidity and intelligent posts of those few libs and others on here, but the noxious babbling of you righties who populate this forum and congratulate each other on your mindless banter is just too much to bear. So I leave it to you to keep shoveling your sh!t, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. I've had quite enough for one day. I'm outa here.

February 7, 2014 at 4:51 p.m.
PlainTruth said...

^^^^^^^ bwahahaha ha

February 7, 2014 at 4:58 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"If you are self-employed and have a net profit for the year, you may be able to deduct"

JT, who said anything about being "self-employed"? Several years ago I worked for a company and the insurance was crappy and a bit pricey. If I would have went out privately and bought a policy that was cheaper, I would not receive the tax savings I would receive to be on the company's plan. If you would have read the next paragraph (after the one you posted to make you look smarter) you could have read it for yourself:

"You cannot deduct payments for medical insurance for any month in which you were eligible to participate in a health plan subsidized by your employer, your spouse's employer or an employer of your dependent or your child under age 27"

Any chance you will redact this statement:

"Well you have long been wrong."?

Because it looks like I was right and you were wrong. But what else is new?

February 7, 2014 at 5:48 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

GaussianInteger said...

"If you are self-employed and have a net profit for the year, you may be able to deduct"

JT, who said anything about being "self-employed"?

I was giving the different situations that you could use to deduct a person’s healthcare insurance. I guess some people don’t want the whole story... Right?

Several years ago I worked for a company and the insurance was crappy and a bit pricey. If I would have went out privately and bought a policy that was cheaper, I would not receive the tax savings I would receive to be on the company's plan. If you would have read the next paragraph (after the one you posted to make you look smarter) you could have read it for yourself:

"You cannot deduct payments for medical insurance for any month in which you were eligible to participate in a health plan subsidized by your employer, your spouse's employer or an employer of your dependent or your child under age 27"

As I said above I was giving you the situations that you could deduct and not the ones you can’t. That was what you were interested in ... Right? You were given an opportunity to deduct your insurance but you chose not to. That appears to be your choice and fault. BTW ... are you claiming that you as an individual could purchase better insurance at a lower price than your employer's subsidized offer ... I say B.S. on that?

Any chance you will redact this statement:

"Well you have long been wrong."?

Because it looks like I was right and you were wrong. But what else is new?

I think the word you were looking for is “retract” and the answer is “NO!”

The tax code gave you a way to deduct your contributions to a healthcare plan and you chose not to use it ... sounds like you were foolish in that.

February 7, 2014 at 6:49 p.m.
alprova said...

jt wrote: "As I said above I was giving you the situations that you could deduct and not the ones you can’t. That was what you were interested in ... Right? You were given an opportunity to deduct your insurance but you chose not to."

Since you are so informed, you should know that shelving the standard deduction in favor of itemizing works out for very few taxpayers, so there is no deduction allowed for health care premiums, especially if the insurance pays the vast majority of one'e health care costs.

"That appears to be your choice and fault."

No it's not. The IRS code is skewed to not allowing deductions for most Americans who pay at least a portion of their premiums. The standard deduction is far higher than what most people can claim by attempting to itemize.

Health care premiums should always be deductible, regardless of whether or not one itemizes. I'm amazed that ObamaCare does not provide for that. If it were the case, I personally believe that more people would sign up for health care insurance.

"BTW ... are you claiming that you as an individual could purchase better insurance at a lower price than your employer's subsidized offer ... I say B.S. on that?"

But of course. You prove on a daily basis that you have such a good handle on reality, right?

You are and always will be a legend in your own mind.

"The tax code gave you a way to deduct your contributions to a healthcare plan and you chose not to use it ... sounds like you were foolish in that."

Which is a good reason why you are ill equipped to hand out tax advice. At any rate, you apparently have never faced having to choose which way to file one of your own returns, or your advice and counsel would be more accurate.

February 7, 2014 at 6:58 p.m.
alprova said...

Rickaroo wrote: "Now, having said that, I take my leave. I have lingered long enough in the fetid environment of this cesspool of right-wing idiocy. It gets depressing being exposed to the lunacy of you RWNJs (take another shot, PT!) for any longer than a few minutes at a time."

You can type that again. It's a waste of one's time to spend all day long refuting the same people who refuse to stick to the facts or truth to ANYTHING.

Depending on the subject of the day, some regurgitate the same vomit over and over again.

I guess they like the taste of it.

February 7, 2014 at 7:04 p.m.
alprova said...

Blackwater48, my hat off to you for a spot-on post at 1:50 in the morning.

Does anyone believe for one second that the truth to the CBO report, and all that was contained in it, was going to be heard on Faux News?

Not on your life.

Fox News may have the best viewership ratings, but all that proves is that there is a portion of people, and that amount is STILL a slim minority of households, who love being lied to consistently.

February 7, 2014 at 7:09 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

SeaSmokie59er said...

Jt6gR3hM said...

"First I don’t realistic believe that Paul Ryan speaks for all Conservatives although you seem to think so."

Only if you agree that Obama doesn't speak for all Liberals.

Have I ever stated otherwise? .... You’re welcome to provide proof but you won’t ... will you?

February 7, 2014 at 7:20 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

"BTW ... very odd that our resident CPA didn't address this the first time you mentioned it several weeks ago."

I didn't mention it #1, because taxes are not my specialty

So you provide accounting services and advice that does not take tax liabilities into account?

2, because very few EMPLOYED people qualify for an added deduction for any medical premiums paid, unless they can pair them with an extensive amount of other medical payments, exceeding the new 10% of adjusted gross income for year 2013.

However there are methods to deduct your healthcare premiums which is contrary to G.I. claim ... Right?

Businesses get to write of any premiums they pay, like any other expense that they incur, which is the point that GaussianInteger was making.

B.S.! ... all of his posts have to do with his personal ability to deduct the premiums.

Health care premiums should be 100% tax-deductible, if encouraging people to obtain health care is the end goal.

I’ve posted nothing to counter that ... have I?

February 7, 2014 at 7:27 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"The tax code gave you a way to deduct your contributions to a healthcare plan and you chose not to use it ... sounds like you were foolish in that."

Only if I chose my employer's health insurance. Damn dude, what part of everything have I posted don't you understand? Let me dumb it down for you a bit. Me buy a product from work, me get tax break. Me buy same product not from work, me get no tax break. THERE IS NO TAX BREAK IF MY EMPLOYER OFFERS INSURANCE AND I CHOOSE TO BUY IT INDEPENDENTLY. I am forced to surrender the tax break or I am tied to an employer's plan. Sheesh, you're like trying to talk to Conservative or Maximus.

"I was giving the different situations that you could use to deduct a person’s healthcare insurance. I guess some people don’t want the whole story... Right?"

Oh yeah? Then what was this part about?

"Well you have long been wrong.

It looks like you’re not competent enough to do your own taxes and should allow someone else to do that for you."

Again, you were wrong, but I guess you're too pompous to admit it.

February 7, 2014 at 7:27 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

"I’ve posted nothing to counter that ... have I?"

Absolutely you have posted stuff to counter that. You began with a portion of the tax code that had nothing to do with what I originally posted. You tried to make me look foolish and you offered me a lecture as if I didn't know anything about itemized deductions. You then changed your tune when I gave you proof from the same section of the tax code you posted you were incorrect.

Admit you were wrong and let's move on to something else.

February 7, 2014 at 7:33 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

GaussianInteger said...

"The tax code gave you a way to deduct your contributions to a healthcare plan and you chose not to use it ... sounds like you were foolish in that."

Only if I chose my employer's health insurance. Damn dude, what part of everything have I posted don't you understand? Let me dumb it down for you a bit. Me buy a product from work, me get tax break. Me buy same product not from work, me get no tax break. THERE IS NO TAX WRITE-OFF IF MY EMPLOYER OFFERS INSURANCE AND I CHOOSE TO BUY IT INDEPENDENTLY. I am forced to surrender the tax break or I am tied to an employer's plan. Sheesh, you're like trying to talk to Conservative or Maximus.

Here is what you originally posted ... idiot!

GaussianInteger said...

I have long argued against the US Govt giving a tax break if you buy healthcare through an employer-based plan and not receiving a tax break if you buy healthcare as a private individual. I don't hear many of you that b!tch about "government entitlements" or "government subsidies" b!tching against that subsidy.

You mentioned nothing about rejecting employer coverage. After I pointed out the facts from the IRS you move the goalpost to try and enable you to spin your way out of a B.S. claim. BTW ... where is the defense of your claim to get better and less expensive coverage on the individual market than the subsidized employer coverage. Why are you hiding from that since it appears central to our latter claims.

February 7, 2014 at 7:44 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

JT, "I moved the goalpost"? No that was you after I countered your claim. And without the tax subsidy through my employer, it was going to cost me more money in the end than the cheaper plan I was going to buy independently. What is it I'm trying to hide? I mean when you work for an employer isn't it standard practice to either accept or decline coverage during open enrollment? Talking about someone trying to "spin their way out of a B.S. claim".

February 7, 2014 at 8:02 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

GaussianInteger said...

"I’ve posted nothing to counter that ... have I?"

Absolutely you have posted stuff to counter that.


Idiot that was in response to Al’s post as below

Al - Health care premiums should be 100% tax-deductible, if encouraging people to obtain health care is the end goal.

Me - I’ve posted nothing to counter that ... have I?

I have posted nothing that says the premiums “should” not be deductible ... Its just you stupid inability to comprehend what you read.


You began with a portion of the tax code that had nothing to do with what I originally posted.

B.S.!

You tried to make me look foolish

I need not try.

and you offered me a lecture as if I didn't know anything about itemized deductions.

A lecture would be wasted on you.

You then changed your tune when I gave you proof from the same section of the tax code you posted you were incorrect.

Again B.S.

Admit you were wrong and let's move on to something else.

You’re welcome to leave the field with your tail between your legs but I’ll still be here to shove your B.S. back in your face when you post it.

February 7, 2014 at 8:04 p.m.
GaussianInteger said...

An internet tough guy...should have known.

You're wrong and you know it.

February 7, 2014 at 8:23 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

GaussianInteger said...

JT, "I moved the goalpost"? No that was you after I countered your claim. And without (?) the tax subsidy through my employer, it was going to cost me more money in the end than the cheaper plan I was going to buy independently. What is it I'm trying to hide? I mean when you work for an employer isn't it standard practice to either accept or decline coverage during open enrollment? Talking about someone trying to "spin their way out of a B.S. claim".

I have purchased healthcare insurance through several employers, as the owner of a business and its employees, and as an individual. Anyone saying they can get better “and” less expensive in the individual market is running a line of B.S. As a result this story of yours about doing so is in the same category.

Just admit you lied to score a few debating points and you will feel better for doing so.

February 7, 2014 at 11:12 p.m.
Jt6gR3hM said...

alprova said...

Since you are so informed, you should know that shelving the standard deduction in favor of itemizing works out for very few taxpayers, so there is no deduction allowed for health care premiums

WTF !! .. “there is no deduction allowed for health care” ... No deduction at all ... Really?

especially if the insurance pays the vast majority of one'e health care costs.

What impact on your deduction for healthcare premiums does this have .... Hint .... None!

"That appears to be your choice and fault."

No it's not. The IRS code is skewed to not allowing deductions for most Americans who pay at least a portion of their premiums. The standard deduction is far higher than what most people can claim by attempting to itemize.

That’s each person’s choice but it does not change the fact that you can deduct your premiums if you so choose.

Health care premiums should always be deductible, regardless of whether or not one itemizes. I'm amazed that ObamaCare does not provide for that. If it were the case, I personally believe that more people would sign up for health care insurance.

"BTW ... are you claiming that you as an individual could purchase better insurance at a lower price than your employer's subsidized offer ... I say B.S. on that?"

But of course. You prove on a daily basis that you have such a good handle on reality, right? You are and always will be a legend in your own mind.

Well are you denying my claim? ... It doesn’t look like you are.

"The tax code gave you a way to deduct your contributions to a healthcare plan and you chose not to use it ... sounds like you were foolish in that."

Which is a good reason why you are ill equipped to hand out tax advice. At any rate, you apparently have never faced having to choose which way to file one of your own returns, or your advice and counsel would be more accurate.

Well at least I don’t try to pass myself off as a CPA. I have always prepared my individual returns and had no problems but of course I got a real CPA, with an office, certificate and everything, to do my corporate taxes. If you have any questions let me know and I will call him to give you some real professional advice... O.K.

February 7, 2014 at 11:29 p.m.
fairmon said...

The one certainty about predictions is that they are seldom if ever accurate. Unintended consequences, in other words screw ups, coming out of D.C. is mind boggling. Obamacare has to have a negative long term impact with a few paying for the healthcare insurance for many. Redistribution leads to success being mediocre for those working to achieve it.

February 7, 2014 at 11:41 p.m.
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